Discussion:
Jack Kerouac & Harlan Ellison: Classics?
(too old to reply)
Will Dockery
2012-04-27 01:11:11 UTC
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When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
and Harlan Ellison have written a few "classics":

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Kerouac

And:

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Ellison

If you'd get out of all those crap "Magick" and junky "self-help" books and
actually read something not worthless, maybe you'd learn about classic
writers like Ellison and Kerouac, Corey.

Or maybe just "get over yourself"... heh.
--
Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars / Katy & Jack Thing:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/347783368616990/
Will Dockery
2012-04-27 01:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
and Harlan Ellison have written a few "classics":

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Kerouac

And:

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Ellison

If you'd get out of all those crap "Magick" and junky "self-help" books and
actually read something not worthless, maybe you'd learn about classic
writers like Ellison and Kerouac, Corey.

Or maybe just "get over yourself"... heh.
--
Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars / Katy & Jack Thing:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/347783368616990/
Corey
2012-04-27 01:44:32 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Kerouac
http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Ellison
If you'd get out of all those crap "Magick" and junky "self-help" books and
actually read something not worthless, maybe you'd learn about classic
writers like Ellison and Kerouac, Corey.
Or maybe just "get over yourself"... heh.
To be fair, I must admit to some knowledge of and interest in Magick,
particularly as it relates to alt.magick where I also post regularly.
I don't know everything, but if you ever have any questions in that
regard I may be able to point you in the right direction. I've given
away virtually all of my texts, but I still remember a few things.
Corey
2012-04-27 01:26:29 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Kerouac
http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Ellison
If you'd get out of all those crap "Magick" and junky "self-help" books and
actually read something not worthless, maybe you'd learn about classic
writers like Ellison and Kerouac, Corey.
Or maybe just "get over yourself"... heh.
--
Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars / Katy & Jack Thing:https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/347783368616990/
You said "If you do". What does that phrase mean to you? What does the
word classic mean to you? It's just a descriptor, Will. You act like
I'm trying to put your buddy's down for not being fancy enough. I'm
not putting them down, Will. They just have their place, and their
place isn't in the classics section of the library or bookstore. I've
read lots of both authors, and I'm happy to discuss them with you, but
it's not a contest here to see who knows more about whoever, or who's
favorites are better than whoever else's. And what the heck makes you
think I even read Magick or Self-help books? I really don't, ever. I
read mostly political rags and commentary, science and medical
journals related to cannabis. That's my thing. I thought you knew
that. I really don't know why you keep harping about Magick and
whatnot.
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 17:38:04 UTC
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"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 17:47:22 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 19:23:26 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 19:31:00 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
It's not from Ellison though. It's by Ellison from you. You're
supposed to be the link, the thing that connects one idea to another.
You didn't do that though. The subject asks a question. The body of
your post doesn't help the reader in that it doesn't supply, support
or suggest an answer other than that you apparently think that Ellison
thinks of himself as an American classic. Is that what you meant to
suggest? I didn't think so at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 19:33:51 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
It's not from Ellison though. It's by Ellison from you. You're
supposed to be the link, the thing that connects one idea to another.
You didn't do that though. The subject asks a question. The body of
your post doesn't help the reader in that it doesn't supply, support
or suggest an answer other than that you apparently think that Ellison
thinks of himself as an American classic. Is that what you meant to
suggest? I didn't think so at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Or that Ellison might look at my and my work in that light..?

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 19:54:20 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
It's not from Ellison though. It's by Ellison from you. You're
supposed to be the link, the thing that connects one idea to another.
You didn't do that though. The subject asks a question. The body of
your post doesn't help the reader in that it doesn't supply, support
or suggest an answer other than that you apparently think that Ellison
thinks of himself as an American classic. Is that what you meant to
suggest? I didn't think so at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Or that Ellison might look at my and my work in that light..?
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Huh? See what I mean? I wrote a paragraph to which you responded with
an incomplete, poorly structured incomprehensible half sentence.
Ellison wouldn't do that.
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 21:44:08 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
It's not from Ellison though. It's by Ellison from you. You're
supposed to be the link, the thing that connects one idea to another.
You didn't do that though. The subject asks a question. The body of
your post doesn't help the reader in that it doesn't supply, support
or suggest an answer other than that you apparently think that Ellison
thinks of himself as an American classic. Is that what you meant to
suggest? I didn't think so at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Or that Ellison might look at my and my work in that light..?
Huh? See what I mean? I wrote a paragraph
You spewed your usual sloppy gibberish... no surprise there, pal.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 22:10:59 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
"There are five native American art forms that we've given to the
world: Jazz/Blues, of course. Musical comedy as we know it today. The
detective story as crafted by Poe. The banjo. And comic books." -
Harlan Ellison
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
So? That's just a quote. Tie it together with some thought of your
own, will you please?
That's all it was intended to be at this time, is a quote from
Ellison.
It's not from Ellison though. It's by Ellison from you. You're
supposed to be the link, the thing that connects one idea to another.
You didn't do that though. The subject asks a question. The body of
your post doesn't help the reader in that it doesn't supply, support
or suggest an answer other than that you apparently think that Ellison
thinks of himself as an American classic. Is that what you meant to
suggest? I didn't think so at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Or that Ellison might look at my and my work in that light..?
Huh? See what I mean? I wrote a paragraph
You spewed your usual sloppy gibberish... no surprise there, pal.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
This is frustrating you because you have to resort to words like spew
and gibberish in reference to what you know isn't spew or gibberish in
order to protect yourself from appearing ignorant or stupid. I'm not
at all sloppy, Will. Ask anybody. I'm incisive and precise, like a
sturgeon. Go fish.
Will Dockery
2012-05-02 06:01:19 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
I'm not
at all sloppy, Will. Ask anybody.
I don't have to "ask anybody", Corey.

I find your writing sloppy and loaded with what I find to be spews of
gibberish.

Maybe "anybody" would not agree with me but that hardly matters,
because that's my perspective, that's what I get out of your poetry.
And this isn't the first time we've gone around and around about this.

--
Ashes To Justice / Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris:
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11851687
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-02 07:54:53 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
I'm not
at all sloppy, Will. Ask anybody.
I don't have to "ask anybody", Corey.
I find your writing sloppy and loaded with what I find to be spews of
gibberish.
Maybe "anybody" would not agree with me but that hardly matters,
because that's my perspective, that's what I get out of your poetry.
And this isn't the first time we've gone around and around about this.
It's about common understanding of what words mean. If you think my
writing is sloppy and loaded with spews of gibberish, that's fine. It
doesn't bother me at all. But people are going to judge you by what
you say in juxtaposition to what you're talking about and wonder if
you know what you're talking about, that's all.
Will Dockery
2012-05-02 09:14:46 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
It's about common understanding of what words mean. If you think my
writing is sloppy and loaded with spews of gibberish, that's fine. It
doesn't bother me at all. But people are going to judge you by what
you say in juxtaposition to what you're talking about and wonder if
you know what you're talking about, that's all.
Well, the next time you post one of your poems here, I'll make sure I
point out exactly what I mean, since I'd say most likely you'll be
posting another poem like the dozens of yours I've read that fall into
this area I describe.

Out of dozens I think there's like two of your poems that escape this
problem, your groovy poem for Angel, and another one I can't remember
the name of right now... maybe another, but I'm too groggy to name it
right now, either.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-02 09:29:28 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
It's about common understanding of what words mean. If you think my
writing is sloppy and loaded with spews of gibberish, that's fine. It
doesn't bother me at all. But people are going to judge you by what
you say in juxtaposition to what you're talking about and wonder if
you know what you're talking about, that's all.
Well, the next time you post one of your poems here, I'll make sure I
point out exactly what I mean, since I'd say most likely you'll be
posting another poem like the dozens of yours I've read that fall into
this area I describe.
Out of dozens I think there's like two of your poems that escape this
problem, your groovy poem for Angel, and another one I can't remember
the name of right now... maybe another, but I'm too groggy to name it
right now, either.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Okay, thanks. That helps. I posted a poem called Night Star in another
thread for George. If you see it, I'd love to know what you think.
Thanks again.
Will Dockery
2012-05-03 17:33:00 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Okay, thanks. That helps. I posted a poem called Night Star in another
thread for George. If you see it, I'd love to know what you think.
Thanks again.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.

Already, the title "Night Star" sounds pretty good... kind of swamped
down here today but I should have some time before dark or just after.

Maybe if you reposted it here it could speed things up a smidgen.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-03 17:45:00 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Okay, thanks. That helps. I posted a poem called Night Star in another
thread for George. If you see it, I'd love to know what you think.
Thanks again.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
Already, the title "Night Star" sounds pretty good... kind of swamped
down here today but I should have some time before dark or just after.
Maybe if you reposted it here it could speed things up a smidgen.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
It kind of goes with the song. You can check it out here:
NIGHT STAR
http://hieronymous707.blogspot.com/2012/04/night-star.html
Will Dockery
2012-05-03 17:52:14 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Okay, thanks. That helps. I posted a poem called Night Star in another
thread for George. If you see it, I'd love to know what you think.
Thanks again.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
Already, the title "Night Star" sounds pretty good... kind of swamped
down here today but I should have some time before dark or just after.
Maybe if you reposted it here it could speed things up a smidgen.
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
NIGHT STAR
http://hieronymous707.blogspot.com/2012/04/night-star.html

Okay, I'll have a look-listen shortly.
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-03 17:57:31 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Okay, thanks. That helps. I posted a poem called Night Star in another
thread for George. If you see it, I'd love to know what you think.
Thanks again.
I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
Already, the title "Night Star" sounds pretty good... kind of swamped
down here today but I should have some time before dark or just after.
Maybe if you reposted it here it could speed things up a smidgen.
--
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
NIGHT STAR
http://hieronymous707.blogspot.com/2012/04/night-star.html
Okay, I'll have a look-listen shortly.
Thanks. This one is called simply red stars.
http://hieronymous707.blogspot.com/2012/05/simply-red-stars.html

Will Dockery
2012-04-27 01:25:44 UTC
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When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
and Harlan Ellison have written a few "classics":

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Kerouac

And:

http://tinyurl.com/Classic-Ellison

If you'd get out of all those crap "Magick" and junky "self-help" books and
actually read something not worthless, maybe you'd learn about classic
writers like Ellison and Kerouac, Corey.

Or maybe just "get over yourself"... heh.
--
Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars / Katy & Jack Thing:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/347783368616990/
Steve Hayes
2012-04-27 05:39:03 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
Kerouac I know but Harlan Ellison I've never heard of.

These are people I know of who were linked to the beat generation.

Arthur, Chester Alan (Gavin)
Grandson of US president Chester Alan Arthur, lived in dunes
south of Pismo Beach among attendant soothsayers and yogis as
King of the Dunes (Watts 1973:282).

He fought in the Irish rebellion and the Spanish Civil War,
and later made a living casting horoscopes. Taught
comparative religion classes at San Quentin Prison, where
Neal Cassady was one of his students (Cassady 1990:331ff).

Burroughs, William S.
Legendary beat figure born in St Louis in 1914, graduate of
Harvard, met Kerouac & Ginsberg in 1944. Worked as private
detective, exterminator & bar tender. Chose drugs as a way of
life, settled in Tangiers in 1953. His "Naked lunch" was
published in 1959. "The place of dead roads" was published in
1984 on his 70th birthday (McDarrah 1985:289).

In Kerouac's novels Burroughs is identified as Will Dennison,
Will Hubbard, Frank Camody and in "On the road" as Old Bull
Lee (McDarrah 1985:47).

Caen, Herb
San Francisco columnist who coined the term "beatnik" to
describe members of the Beat generation (Christensen
1993:89).

Cassady, Neal
Neal Cassady (1926-1968) was the legendary folk hero of the
beat movement, born in Salt Lake City on 8 Feb 1926 to a life
of hardship. Immortalized as Dean Moriarty in Kerouac's "On
the road". Died in Mexico on 4 Feb 1968 four days before his
43rd birthday. William Plummer's definitive book on Cassady,
"The holy goof" was published in 1981 (McDarrah 1985:289,
dates by Dave Moore).

Dahlenburg, Claude
Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Bud Diefendorf (Gifford & Lee
1978:325).

de Latre, Pierre
Beatnik priest, whose Bread and Wine mission became a
laundromat when he went to the country to write a novel
(McDarrah 1985:265)

Gibson, Jacqueline
Billie (Willamine) in "Big Sur", a mistress of Neal Cassady,
whom he handed over to Jack Kerouac when he came out of
prison in 1960. Her son, called "Elliott" in "Big Sur" must
have been born ab out 1956.

Ginsberg, Allen
Poet. Born 3 Jun 1926 in Newark, New Jersey, attended
Columbia College, later sailed in Merchant Marine. In 1955
went to San Francisco, where his poem "Howl" created a
sensation and a court case for obscenity. In 1974 won
National Book Award for "Fall of America". Organized the
Naropa Institute (McDarrah 1985:295).

Appears as "Alvah Goldbook" in "The Dharma Bums"; Appears as
David Stofsky, the mad poet, in "Go".

Appears as Irwin Garden in several novels and as Carlo Marx
in "On the road" and Adam Moorad in "The subterraneans"
(Gifford & Lee 1978:326).

Grogan, Emmett
Kenny Wisdom in "Ringolevio: a life played for keeps" - a
semi-autobiographical book about the sleazy side of the
Haight-Ashbury hippie scene of the 1960s.

Holmes, John Clellon
Born in Holyoke, Massachusetts & attended Columbia.
Introduced the term "beat generation" in an essay in NY Times
magazine in 1952, in the same year in which he published his
first novel "Go". Was later a university professor of
creative writing in Arkansas (McDarrah 1985:297).

Kerouac, Jack
Beat generation author (1922-1969). Jean Louis Lebris de
Kerouac born 12 March 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts.
Graduated from Lowell High School in 1939, where he had
starred in football and athletics. Matriculated at Columbia
University, New York in 1940, but in 1941 dropped out and did
odd jobs. Enlisted in US Navy, but was discharged on
psychiatric grounds. In 1943 went to Liverpool as a merchant
seaman. In 1944 met William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg.
Married and was separated from Edie Parker. In 1946 met Neal
Cassady, and his travels with Cassady in the next couple of
years were described in "On the road". In 1952 worked as a
brakeman on Southern Pacific Railroad while living was
Cassadys in San Jose. In 1954 read Thoreau and Buddhist
philosophy. In 1955 met Gary Snyder, attended famous poetry
reading by six poets in San Francisco. In 1956 spent the
summer fire watching in Cascade mountains of Washington, and
the following year visited Burroughs in Tangiers. "On the
road" published in 1957, "Subterraneans" & "Dharma bums" in
1958. Several books published from then until his death on 21
October 1969 in Petersburg, Florida.

Lipton, Lawrence
Poet, novelist, lecturer & beat chronicler. Born in Poland in
1899, died in 1975. Best known for "The erotic revolution"
and "The holy barbarians". Co-author of 22 mystery novels
under the pseudonym Craig Rice (McDarrah 1985:302).

McCorckle, Locke
Studied with Alan Watts at the American Academy of Asian
Studies (Gifford & Lee 1978:208; Furlong 1986:137). He was a
pacifist, and Watts gave evidence in his trial for resisting
the draft.

Gary Snyder lived in a shack above his house in Mill Valley
in 1958 (Fields 1992:220). He was Sean Monahan of "The Dharma
bums" and Kevin McLoch in "Desolation angels" and Gary Snyder
and Jack Kerouac stayed there in 1956 (Gifford & Lee
1978:328). In 1978 he was senior aide to Werner Erhard, the
secular guru of est, Erhard Seminars Training (Gifford & Lee
1978:321)

Montgomery, John
Poet & pamphleteer, author of Kerouac West coast. Was Henry
Morley in "Dharma Bums" and Alex Fairbrother in "Desolation
angels" (Gifford & Lee 1978:329)

Snyder, Gary
Woodsman, linguist, anthropologist and poet. Born 8 May 1930
in San Francisco, and raised in Washington State and Oregon.
At Reed College was part of a Bohemian group that included
Philip Whalen and Lew Welch (Charters 1993:288). Studied
classical Chinese at Berkeley. In 1956 went to Japan to study
Zen Buddhism. Published his first book, "Riprap", in 1959 and
won several prizes for "Turtle Island", published 1974
(McDarrah 1989:314).

Snyder was a personal friend of Alan Watts, and was the hero
of Jack Kerouac's book "The Dharma bums", where he appears
under the alias of Japhy Ryder. Fr Seraphim Rose met him
several times at the Academy of Asian Studies in San
Francisco (Christenson 1993:89).

He also appears as Jarry Wagner in "Desolation Angels" and
"Big Sur."

Watts, Alan
Erstwhile Episcopal priest and chaplain at North Western
University, wrote 24 books on Eastern thought and died in
1973 (Chandler 1988:49)

Alan W. Watts visited Pomona College in California in 1953.
He was an Englishman who had been an Anglican priest in the
1940s, but left the ministry in 1950 after a public
controversy. He became dean of the American Academy of Asian
Studies in San Francisco 1953 with a speciality in Zen
Buddhism (Christensen 1993:35). Watts influenced the San
Francisco Renaissance of the late 1950s and early 1960s, and
was an avowed hedonist. He also influenced Eugene Rose (Fr
Seraphim Rose), who later, however, rejected Watts's
teachings when he embraced Orthodoxy (Christenson 1993:39,
53-55).

Watts appears as Arthur Whane in Jack Kerouac's "The Dharma
Bums" and as Alex Aums in "Desolation Angels."

Welch, Lew
High school track star. Roomed with Philip Whalen and Gary
Snyder at Reed College. Collected works appeared in 1977,
five years after his strange disappearance in the foothills
of the Sierra Nevada, described in Aram Saroyan's definitive
portrait, "Genesis angels" (McDarragh 1985:317).

Participated in a Zen zazen group in 1958 with Snyder, Claude
Dahlenburg, Albert Saijo & others in a shack above Locke
McCorkle's house in Mill Valley. It was called Marin-an -
Horse Grove Hermitage. Saijo & Welch maintained it for a
while after Snyder returned to Japan, then it was moved to
East-West House in San Francisco (Fields 1992:220). Appears
in Kerouac's "Big Sur" as Dave Wain (Gifford & Lee 1978:332)
and also in "Desolation angels".

Whalen, Philip
Poet and Zen monk. Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Warren
Coughlin and in "Big Sur" as Ben Fagan (Gifford & Lee
1978:332).
--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/LITMAIN.HTM
http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Corey
2012-04-27 08:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
Kerouac I know but Harlan Ellison I've never heard of.
Ellison is ostensibly an award winning yet contentious and ornery old
bugfuck, a contemporary and friend of Isaac Asimov, a writer of
"speculative fiction". He has a Wiki entry, so he really must be
somebody important. He's one of Will Dockery's favorite authors, which
may explain why Will Dockery acts like such a contentious and ornery
old bugfuck. Ellison's link to the beat generation exists on the
tenuous threads of Will Dockery's exposure to and appreciation of
their work. In Dockery's mind, Kerouac and Ellison are friends.
Post by Steve Hayes
These are people I know of who were linked to the beat generation.
Arthur, Chester Alan (Gavin)
    Grandson of US president Chester Alan Arthur, lived in dunes
    south of Pismo Beach among attendant soothsayers and yogis as
    King of the Dunes (Watts 1973:282).
    He fought in the Irish rebellion and the Spanish Civil War,
    and later made a living casting horoscopes. Taught
    comparative religion classes at San Quentin Prison, where
    Neal Cassady was one of his students (Cassady 1990:331ff).
Burroughs, William S.
    Legendary beat figure born in St Louis in 1914, graduate of
    Harvard, met Kerouac & Ginsberg in 1944. Worked as private
    detective, exterminator & bar tender. Chose drugs as a way of
    life, settled in Tangiers in 1953. His "Naked lunch" was
    published in 1959. "The place of dead roads" was published in
    1984 on his 70th birthday (McDarrah 1985:289).
    In Kerouac's novels Burroughs is identified as Will Dennison,
    Will Hubbard, Frank Camody and in "On the road" as Old Bull
    Lee (McDarrah 1985:47).
Caen, Herb
    San Francisco columnist who coined the term "beatnik" to
    describe members of the Beat generation (Christensen
    1993:89).
Cassady, Neal
    Neal Cassady (1926-1968) was the legendary folk hero of the
    beat movement, born in Salt Lake City on 8 Feb 1926 to a life
    of hardship. Immortalized as Dean Moriarty in Kerouac's "On
    the road". Died in Mexico on 4 Feb 1968 four days before his
    43rd birthday. William Plummer's definitive book on Cassady,
    "The holy goof" was published in 1981 (McDarrah 1985:289,
    dates by Dave Moore).
Dahlenburg, Claude
    Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Bud Diefendorf (Gifford & Lee
    1978:325).
de Latre, Pierre
    Beatnik priest, whose Bread and Wine mission became a
    laundromat when he went to the country to write a novel
    (McDarrah 1985:265)
Gibson, Jacqueline
    Billie (Willamine) in "Big Sur", a mistress of Neal Cassady,
    whom he handed over to Jack Kerouac when he came out of
    prison in 1960. Her son, called "Elliott" in "Big Sur" must
    have been born ab out 1956.
Ginsberg, Allen
    Poet. Born 3 Jun 1926 in Newark, New Jersey, attended
    Columbia College, later sailed in Merchant Marine. In 1955
    went to San Francisco, where his poem "Howl" created a
    sensation and a court case for obscenity. In 1974 won
    National Book Award for "Fall of America". Organized the
    Naropa Institute (McDarrah 1985:295).
    Appears as "Alvah Goldbook" in "The Dharma Bums"; Appears as
    David Stofsky, the mad poet, in "Go".
    Appears as Irwin Garden in several novels and as Carlo Marx
    in "On the road" and Adam Moorad in "The subterraneans"
    (Gifford & Lee 1978:326).
Grogan, Emmett
    Kenny Wisdom in "Ringolevio: a life played for keeps" - a
    semi-autobiographical book about the sleazy side of the
    Haight-Ashbury hippie scene of the 1960s.
Holmes, John Clellon
    Born in Holyoke, Massachusetts & attended Columbia.
    Introduced the term "beat generation" in an essay in NY Times
    magazine in 1952, in the same year in which he published his
    first novel "Go". Was later a university professor of
    creative writing in Arkansas (McDarrah 1985:297).
Kerouac, Jack
    Beat generation author (1922-1969). Jean Louis Lebris de
    Kerouac born 12 March 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts.
    Graduated from Lowell High School in 1939, where he had
    starred in football and athletics. Matriculated at Columbia
    University, New York in 1940, but in 1941 dropped out and did
    odd jobs. Enlisted in US Navy, but was discharged on
    psychiatric grounds. In 1943 went to Liverpool as a merchant
    seaman. In 1944 met William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg.
    Married and was separated from Edie Parker. In 1946 met Neal
    Cassady, and his travels with Cassady in the next couple of
    years were described in "On the road". In 1952 worked as a
    brakeman on Southern Pacific Railroad while living was
    Cassadys in San Jose. In 1954 read Thoreau and Buddhist
    philosophy. In 1955 met Gary Snyder, attended famous poetry
    reading by six poets in San Francisco. In 1956 spent the
    summer fire watching in Cascade mountains of Washington, and
    the following year visited Burroughs in Tangiers. "On the
    road" published in 1957, "Subterraneans" & "Dharma bums" in
    1958. Several books published from then until his death on 21
    October 1969 in Petersburg, Florida.
Lipton, Lawrence
    Poet, novelist, lecturer & beat chronicler. Born in Poland in
    1899, died in 1975. Best known for "The erotic revolution"
    and "The holy barbarians". Co-author of 22 mystery novels
    under the pseudonym Craig Rice (McDarrah 1985:302).
McCorckle, Locke
    Studied with Alan Watts at the American Academy of Asian
    Studies (Gifford & Lee 1978:208; Furlong 1986:137). He was a
    pacifist, and Watts gave evidence in his trial for resisting
    the draft.
    Gary Snyder lived in a shack above his house in Mill Valley
    in 1958 (Fields 1992:220). He was Sean Monahan of "The Dharma
    bums" and Kevin McLoch in "Desolation angels" and Gary Snyder
    and Jack Kerouac stayed there in 1956 (Gifford & Lee
    1978:328). In 1978 he was senior aide to Werner Erhard, the
    secular guru of est, Erhard Seminars Training (Gifford & Lee
    1978:321)
Montgomery, John
    Poet & pamphleteer, author of Kerouac West coast. Was Henry
    Morley in "Dharma Bums" and Alex Fairbrother in "Desolation
    angels" (Gifford & Lee 1978:329)
Snyder, Gary
    Woodsman, linguist, anthropologist and poet. Born 8 May 1930
    in San Francisco, and raised in Washington State and Oregon.
    At Reed College was part of a Bohemian group that included
    Philip Whalen and Lew Welch (Charters 1993:288). Studied
    classical Chinese at Berkeley. In 1956 went to Japan to study
    Zen Buddhism. Published his first book, "Riprap", in 1959 and
    won several prizes for "Turtle Island", published 1974
    (McDarrah 1989:314).
    Snyder was a personal friend of Alan Watts, and was the hero
    of Jack Kerouac's book "The Dharma bums", where he appears
    under the alias of Japhy Ryder. Fr Seraphim Rose met him
    several times at the Academy of Asian Studies in San
    Francisco (Christenson 1993:89).
    He also appears as Jarry Wagner in "Desolation Angels" and
    "Big Sur."
Watts, Alan
    Erstwhile Episcopal priest and chaplain at North Western
    University, wrote 24 books on Eastern thought and died in
    1973 (Chandler 1988:49)
    Alan W. Watts visited Pomona College in California in 1953.
    He was an Englishman who had been an Anglican priest in the
    1940s, but left the ministry in 1950 after a public
    controversy. He became dean of the American Academy of Asian
    Studies in San Francisco 1953 with a speciality in Zen
    Buddhism (Christensen 1993:35). Watts influenced the San
    Francisco Renaissance of the late 1950s and early 1960s, and
    was an avowed hedonist. He also influenced Eugene Rose (Fr
    Seraphim Rose), who later, however, rejected Watts's
    teachings when he embraced Orthodoxy (Christenson 1993:39,
    53-55).
    Watts appears as Arthur Whane in Jack Kerouac's "The Dharma
    Bums" and as Alex Aums in "Desolation Angels."
Welch, Lew
    High school track star. Roomed with Philip Whalen and Gary
    Snyder at Reed College. Collected works appeared in 1977,
    five years after his strange disappearance in the foothills
    of the Sierra Nevada, described in Aram Saroyan's definitive
    portrait, "Genesis angels" (McDarragh 1985:317).
    Participated in a Zen zazen group in 1958 with Snyder, Claude
    Dahlenburg, Albert Saijo & others in a shack above Locke
    McCorkle's house in Mill Valley. It was called Marin-an -
    Horse Grove Hermitage. Saijo & Welch maintained it for a
    while after Snyder returned to Japan, then it was moved to
    East-West House in San Francisco (Fields 1992:220). Appears
    in Kerouac's "Big Sur" as Dave Wain (Gifford & Lee 1978:332)
    and also in "Desolation angels".
Whalen, Philip
    Poet and Zen monk. Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Warren
    Coughlin and in "Big Sur" as Ben Fagan (Gifford & Lee
    1978:332).
--
Steve Hayes
Web:http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/LITMAIN.HTM
     http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
     http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Will Dockery
2012-04-27 11:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Corey <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip for focus>
Post by Corey
Ellison's link to the beat generation exists on the
tenuous threads of Will Dockery's exposure to and appreciation of
their work. In Dockery's mind, Kerouac and Ellison are friends.
While I've never made the claim that there was any literal connection
between Harlan Ellison and the Beat writers, or Kerouac in specific,
there is the "connection" that Kerouac and the Beats had an impact &
influence on all of Ellison's generation.
Post by Corey
Post by Steve Hayes
These are people I know of who were linked to the beat generation.
Arthur, Chester Alan (Gavin)
    Grandson of US president Chester Alan Arthur, lived in dunes
    south of Pismo Beach among attendant soothsayers and yogis as
    King of the Dunes (Watts 1973:282).
    He fought in the Irish rebellion and the Spanish Civil War,
    and later made a living casting horoscopes. Taught
    comparative religion classes at San Quentin Prison, where
    Neal Cassady was one of his students (Cassady 1990:331ff).
Burroughs, William S.
    Legendary beat figure born in St Louis in 1914, graduate of
    Harvard, met Kerouac & Ginsberg in 1944. Worked as private
    detective, exterminator & bar tender. Chose drugs as a way of
    life, settled in Tangiers in 1953. His "Naked lunch" was
    published in 1959. "The place of dead roads" was published in
    1984 on his 70th birthday (McDarrah 1985:289).
    In Kerouac's novels Burroughs is identified as Will Dennison,
    Will Hubbard, Frank Camody and in "On the road" as Old Bull
    Lee (McDarrah 1985:47).
Caen, Herb
    San Francisco columnist who coined the term "beatnik" to
    describe members of the Beat generation (Christensen
    1993:89).
Cassady, Neal
    Neal Cassady (1926-1968) was the legendary folk hero of the
    beat movement, born in Salt Lake City on 8 Feb 1926 to a life
    of hardship. Immortalized as Dean Moriarty in Kerouac's "On
    the road". Died in Mexico on 4 Feb 1968 four days before his
    43rd birthday. William Plummer's definitive book on Cassady,
    "The holy goof" was published in 1981 (McDarrah 1985:289,
    dates by Dave Moore).
Dahlenburg, Claude
    Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Bud Diefendorf (Gifford & Lee
    1978:325).
de Latre, Pierre
    Beatnik priest, whose Bread and Wine mission became a
    laundromat when he went to the country to write a novel
    (McDarrah 1985:265)
Gibson, Jacqueline
    Billie (Willamine) in "Big Sur", a mistress of Neal Cassady,
    whom he handed over to Jack Kerouac when he came out of
    prison in 1960. Her son, called "Elliott" in "Big Sur" must
    have been born ab out 1956.
Ginsberg, Allen
    Poet. Born 3 Jun 1926 in Newark, New Jersey, attended
    Columbia College, later sailed in Merchant Marine. In 1955
    went to San Francisco, where his poem "Howl" created a
    sensation and a court case for obscenity. In 1974 won
    National Book Award for "Fall of America". Organized the
    Naropa Institute (McDarrah 1985:295).
    Appears as "Alvah Goldbook" in "The Dharma Bums"; Appears as
    David Stofsky, the mad poet, in "Go".
    Appears as Irwin Garden in several novels and as Carlo Marx
    in "On the road" and Adam Moorad in "The subterraneans"
    (Gifford & Lee 1978:326).
Grogan, Emmett
    Kenny Wisdom in "Ringolevio: a life played for keeps" - a
    semi-autobiographical book about the sleazy side of the
    Haight-Ashbury hippie scene of the 1960s.
Holmes, John Clellon
    Born in Holyoke, Massachusetts & attended Columbia.
    Introduced the term "beat generation" in an essay in NY Times
    magazine in 1952, in the same year in which he published his
    first novel "Go". Was later a university professor of
    creative writing in Arkansas (McDarrah 1985:297).
Kerouac, Jack
    Beat generation author (1922-1969). Jean Louis Lebris de
    Kerouac born 12 March 1922 in Lowell, Massachusetts.
    Graduated from Lowell High School in 1939, where he had
    starred in football and athletics. Matriculated at Columbia
    University, New York in 1940, but in 1941 dropped out and did
    odd jobs. Enlisted in US Navy, but was discharged on
    psychiatric grounds. In 1943 went to Liverpool as a merchant
    seaman. In 1944 met William Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg.
    Married and was separated from Edie Parker. In 1946 met Neal
    Cassady, and his travels with Cassady in the next couple of
    years were described in "On the road". In 1952 worked as a
    brakeman on Southern Pacific Railroad while living was
    Cassadys in San Jose. In 1954 read Thoreau and Buddhist
    philosophy. In 1955 met Gary Snyder, attended famous poetry
    reading by six poets in San Francisco. In 1956 spent the
    summer fire watching in Cascade mountains of Washington, and
    the following year visited Burroughs in Tangiers. "On the
    road" published in 1957, "Subterraneans" & "Dharma bums" in
    1958. Several books published from then until his death on 21
    October 1969 in Petersburg, Florida.
Lipton, Lawrence
    Poet, novelist, lecturer & beat chronicler. Born in Poland in
    1899, died in 1975. Best known for "The erotic revolution"
    and "The holy barbarians". Co-author of 22 mystery novels
    under the pseudonym Craig Rice (McDarrah 1985:302).
McCorckle, Locke
    Studied with Alan Watts at the American Academy of Asian
    Studies (Gifford & Lee 1978:208; Furlong 1986:137). He was a
    pacifist, and Watts gave evidence in his trial for resisting
    the draft.
    Gary Snyder lived in a shack above his house in Mill Valley
    in 1958 (Fields 1992:220). He was Sean Monahan of "The Dharma
    bums" and Kevin McLoch in "Desolation angels" and Gary Snyder
    and Jack Kerouac stayed there in 1956 (Gifford & Lee
    1978:328). In 1978 he was senior aide to Werner Erhard, the
    secular guru of est, Erhard Seminars Training (Gifford & Lee
    1978:321)
Montgomery, John
    Poet & pamphleteer, author of Kerouac West coast. Was Henry
    Morley in "Dharma Bums" and Alex Fairbrother in "Desolation
    angels" (Gifford & Lee 1978:329)
Snyder, Gary
    Woodsman, linguist, anthropologist and poet. Born 8 May 1930
    in San Francisco, and raised in Washington State and Oregon.
    At Reed College was part of a Bohemian group that included
    Philip Whalen and Lew Welch (Charters 1993:288). Studied
    classical Chinese at Berkeley. In 1956 went to Japan to study
    Zen Buddhism. Published his first book, "Riprap", in 1959 and
    won several prizes for "Turtle Island", published 1974
    (McDarrah 1989:314).
    Snyder was a personal friend of Alan Watts, and was the hero
    of Jack Kerouac's book "The Dharma bums", where he appears
    under the alias of Japhy Ryder. Fr Seraphim Rose met him
    several times at the Academy of Asian Studies in San
    Francisco (Christenson 1993:89).
    He also appears as Jarry Wagner in "Desolation Angels" and
    "Big Sur."
Watts, Alan
    Erstwhile Episcopal priest and chaplain at North Western
    University, wrote 24 books on Eastern thought and died in
    1973 (Chandler 1988:49)
    Alan W. Watts visited Pomona College in California in 1953.
    He was an Englishman who had been an Anglican priest in the
    1940s, but left the ministry in 1950 after a public
    controversy. He became dean of the American Academy of Asian
    Studies in San Francisco 1953 with a speciality in Zen
    Buddhism (Christensen 1993:35). Watts influenced the San
    Francisco Renaissance of the late 1950s and early 1960s, and
    was an avowed hedonist. He also influenced Eugene Rose (Fr
    Seraphim Rose), who later, however, rejected Watts's
    teachings when he embraced Orthodoxy (Christenson 1993:39,
    53-55).
    Watts appears as Arthur Whane in Jack Kerouac's "The Dharma
    Bums" and as Alex Aums in "Desolation Angels."
Welch, Lew
    High school track star. Roomed with Philip Whalen and Gary
    Snyder at Reed College. Collected works appeared in 1977,
    five years after his strange disappearance in the foothills
    of the Sierra Nevada, described in Aram Saroyan's definitive
    portrait, "Genesis angels" (McDarragh 1985:317).
    Participated in a Zen zazen group in 1958 with Snyder, Claude
    Dahlenburg, Albert Saijo & others in a shack above Locke
    McCorkle's house in Mill Valley. It was called Marin-an -
    Horse Grove Hermitage. Saijo & Welch maintained it for a
    while after Snyder returned to Japan, then it was moved to
    East-West House in San Francisco (Fields 1992:220). Appears
    in Kerouac's "Big Sur" as Dave Wain (Gifford & Lee 1978:332)
    and also in "Desolation angels".
Whalen, Philip
    Poet and Zen monk. Appears in "Dharma Bums" as Warren
    Coughlin and in "Big Sur" as Ben Fagan (Gifford & Lee
    1978:332).
--
Steve Hayes
Web:http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/LITMAIN.HTM
     http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
     http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Corey
2012-04-27 12:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Will Dockery
2012-04-27 12:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.

I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Corey
2012-04-27 12:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I don't argue or insult. You do that. So stop already.
Adam Lynn
2012-04-27 23:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.

Bob
Corey
2012-04-28 00:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Adam Lynn
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.
Bob
Are you fucking serious, Bob? LOL. OMG. You don't 'learn' how to take
an insult. There's nothing to learn. Insults are stupid. You don't
learn from them. You just take it. Some people can take them and some
people can't. Some people are insulted by the stupidest things. I've
seen people insulted by bullets and bombs and disease and destitution
and seen how they're treated, and mistreated. Now that's insulting.
Will Dockery
2012-04-30 11:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Adam Lynn
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.
Wow... I'm pretty sure I don't *want* to learn how to take an insult.

I know that must be like the "turn the other cheek" deal, I reckon?

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-04-30 11:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Adam Lynn
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.
Wow... I'm pretty sure I don't *want* to learn how to take an insult.
I know that must be like the "turn the other cheek" deal, I reckon?
Thank you, sir. May I please have another?
Will Dockery
2012-04-30 11:34:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Adam Lynn
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.
Wow... I'm pretty sure I don't *want* to learn how to take an insult.
I know that must be like the "turn the other cheek" deal, I reckon?
Thank you, sir. May I please have another?
Right, right...

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-04-30 12:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Adam Lynn
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Corey
Post by Will Dockery
<snip for focus>
If you really don't want to hear from me, don't respond to me. If you
do respond, just tell me what you want from me. Simple.
Okay, I don't mind at all hearing from you, and if it really matters
what I *want*, I guess I'd say less arguing and insults.
I can take them and I can dish the out in return but I'd rather not.
Speaking only for myself, Will, once I learned how
to take an insult I no longer felt the need to dish
any out.
Wow... I'm pretty sure I don't *want* to learn how to take an insult.
I know that must be like the "turn the other cheek" deal, I reckon?
Thank you, sir. May I please have another?
Right, right...
Write right.
Peter J Ross
2012-04-29 00:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:39:03 +0200, Steve
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
Kerouac I know but Harlan Ellison I've never heard of.
Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats", Ellison achieved
basic literacy.
--
PJR :-) | οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ, τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
| φύλλα τὰ μέν τ' ἄνεμος χαμάδις χέει, ἄλλα δέ θ' ὕλη
| τηλεθόωσα φύει, ἔαρος δ' ἐπιγίγνεται ὥρη·
| ὣς ἀνδρῶν γενεὴ ἡ μὲν φύει ἡ δ' ἀπολήγει. (Homer)
Hieronymous 707
2012-04-29 10:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter J Ross
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:39:03 +0200, Steve
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Will Dockery
When you think of the classics, do you really think of Kerouac
and Ellison
If I do, it looks like a great many people agree with me that Jack Kerouac
Kerouac I know but Harlan Ellison I've never heard of.
Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats", Ellison achieved
basic literacy.
LOL. You may well be the whitest guy in the group, Peter.
Congratulations. You must be very proud.
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 00:04:28 UTC
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Harlan Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats",
You just looked that up on Google, didn't you?

You've never read a sentence by either writer, have you?

"We know."

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 08:36:35 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Harlan Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats",
You just looked that up on Google, didn't you?
You've never read a sentence by either writer, have you?
From an outside perspective, and judging only by the information
provided by the two of you here, it appears that your understanding of
the two authors and their respective material is comparable to one
another and surprisingly mutual. Who knew you'd ever find something or
somebody you could actually agree on? Happy day!
Will Dockery
2012-05-01 15:01:23 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Harlan Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats",
You just looked that up on Google, didn't you?
You've never read a sentence by either writer, have you?
From an outside perspective, and judging only by the information
provided by the two of you here, it appears that your understanding of
the two authors and their respective material is comparable to one
another and surprisingly mutual. Who knew you'd ever find something or
somebody you could actually agree on? Happy day!
That's because you play fast and loose with your perspectives and
judgements of other people, thus your opinions are usually shallow and
sloppy.

You take the easy way out and use the old "psychic" ruse.

--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
Hieronymous 707
2012-05-01 15:27:18 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous 707
Post by Will Dockery
Harlan Ellison wrote some tedious political manifestos in the guise of sci-fi
stories. Unlike Kerouac and all the other "beats",
You just looked that up on Google, didn't you?
You've never read a sentence by either writer, have you?
From an outside perspective, and judging only by the information
provided by the two of you here, it appears that your understanding of
the two authors and their respective material is comparable to one
another and surprisingly mutual. Who knew you'd ever find something or
somebody you could actually agree on? Happy day!
That's because you play fast and loose with your perspectives and
judgements of other people, thus your opinions are usually shallow and
sloppy.
You take the easy way out and use the old "psychic" ruse.
--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
LOL. Look who's talking! Can't you do anything but insult people's
intelligence? Everybody here knows that doesn't describe me at all.
You're just mad. Get over yourself, and have a great May Day, ya hear?
LOL.
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