Discussion:
"Are Haiku poems?"
(too old to reply)
Will Dockery
2010-09-21 21:36:16 UTC
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Karla said:
>
> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?

Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
America:

http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html

"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2010-09-21 21:54:59 UTC
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On Sep 21, 5:36 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla said:
>
>
>
> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

Yes, certainly haiku (or any tercets) can be poems. A poem can have as
little as one line.

> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>

Or as "Haiku", FTM. That has been a problem I've had in explaining why
I didn't consider them poems: I found two of them, but lost them
again, and never did find the third, so I can't even point to them.
But it's not why I don't consider them poems.

Hmmm... Maybe I should write something in general terms about that -
then if I do find the haiku, I can refer to it -- and even if I don't,
it's more likely to be read than something buried down here, anyway.


.





> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2010-09-22 19:53:31 UTC
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On Sep 21, 5:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 5:36 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Karla said:
>
> > > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> > Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> > as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> > America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> > "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> > to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> > image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> > portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> > spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> > in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> > The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> > yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> > prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> > believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> > lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> > graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> > of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> > recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> > which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> > of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> Yes, certainly haiku (or any tercets) can be poems. A poem can have as
> little as one line.
>
> > I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> > to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> Or as "Haiku", FTM. That has been a problem I've had in explaining why
> I didn't consider them poems: I found two of them, but lost them
> again, and never did find the third, so I can't even point to them.

I don't remember any of these haikus, either, which was why I reposted
her list with the intention of linking to the poems I did remember &
recognize, along with my in-depth commentaries of some of them, and
asked her to post links to the others, or all of the poems.

> But it's not why I don't consider them poems.
>
> Hmmm... Maybe I should write something in general terms about that -
> then if I do find the haiku, I can refer to it -- and even if I don't,
> it's more likely to be read than something buried down here, anyway.
>
> .> --
> > Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Bohgosity BumaskiL
2010-09-23 20:14:59 UTC
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Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
important for me than grammar.

This is not a hai-
ku, because it fails to in-
dicate a season.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/ Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2010-09-24 12:50:25 UTC
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THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
OF YA!
Leisha
2010-09-28 19:56:06 UTC
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On Sep 23, 1:14 pm, "Bohgosity BumaskiL"
<***@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> important for me than grammar.
>
> This is not a hai-
> ku, because it fails to in-
> dicate a season.
> _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.

Cups of pinot noir.
Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
September harvest.

Leisha
Will Dockery
2010-09-29 14:05:19 UTC
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Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
>"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > important for me than grammar.
>
> > This is not a hai-
> > ku, because it fails to in-
> > dicate a season.
> > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmeris a haiku.
>
> Cups of pinot noir.
> Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> September harvest.
>
> Leisha

Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.

On the subject of Haiku, and Karla's sveral from earlier this year, I
went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
writing Haiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
forgotten:

http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c

Sandy makes me think of a haiku, though unfinished.

Bluebird
on white snow
shivers her timbers.

-Will Dockery

and

http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74

Iron Butterfly
comes to mind
1970s breeze.

-Will Dockery

Meanwhile, The Search continues...

--
T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
* Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
* Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
* Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mind/162320477117852?ref=mf
George Dance
2010-10-01 23:54:52 UTC
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On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > This is not a hai-
> > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > dicate a season.
> > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > Cups of pinot noir.
> > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > September harvest.
>
> > Leisha
>
> Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> forgotten:
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> Bluebird
> on white snow
> shivers her timbers.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> and
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> Iron Butterfly
> comes to mind
> 1970s breeze.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>

I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).

BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list. So far I've
found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
about it as well.

> --
> T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
Will Dockery
2010-10-02 01:08:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > dicate a season.
> > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > September harvest.
>
> > > Leisha
>
> > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > forgotten:
>
> >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > Bluebird
> > on white snow
> > shivers her timbers.
>
> > -Will Dockery
>
> > and
>
> >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > Iron Butterfly
> > comes to mind
> > 1970s breeze.
>
> > -Will Dockery
>
> > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.

I wonder what was up with that?

So far I've
> found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> about it as well.

Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
interesting.

> --
> > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...

The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:

http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/

--
--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
George Dance
2010-10-02 02:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 1, 9:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > > dicate a season.
> > > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > > September harvest.
>
> > > > Leisha
>
> > > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > > forgotten:
>
> > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > > Bluebird
> > > on white snow
> > > shivers her timbers.
>
> > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > and
>
> > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > > Iron Butterfly
> > > comes to mind
> > > 1970s breeze.
>
> > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> I wonder what was up with that?
>

I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."

> So far I've
> > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > about it as well.
>
> Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> interesting.
>

I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
(while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
fight.



> > --
> > > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
>
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
>
> The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:
>
> http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/
>
> --
> --
> "Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
Will Dockery
2010-10-02 04:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 1, 10:40 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 1, 9:08 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > > > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > > > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > > > dicate a season.
> > > > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > > > September harvest.
>
> > > > > Leisha
>
> > > > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > > > forgotten:
>
> > > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > > > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > > > Bluebird
> > > > on white snow
> > > > shivers her timbers.
>
> > > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > > and
>
> > > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > > > Iron Butterfly
> > > > comes to mind
> > > > 1970s breeze.
>
> > > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think

Hmmm... haven't thought of Houstman in a while. Wonder if he's still
holding court in the Beatles newsgroup, which I also haven't made it
back to in some weeks, now.

Think I'll go have a gander... heh.

> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > So far I've
> > > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > > about it as well.
>
> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > interesting.
>
> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began.

Excellent, I may get back to that one, as well, as I wanted to link to
my comments & critiques some of those poems from those titles, as
well.

Time permitting... *hello Matt*!

I'd like to work on
> my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> fight.

And in the end, everyone wins, since we'll have easy access to all
that wonderful Karla Rogers poetry... old and new!

--
"I know that my true friend will appear after my death, and my
sweetheart died before I was born." -Tanaka Katsumi (via Harlan
Ellison)
"House of Ghosts" / T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind)
http://www.myspace.com/music/t-o-t-m-6002603/songs/house-of-ghosts-37942333

> > --
> > > > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > > > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > > > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > > > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > > > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > > > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
>
> >http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
>
> > The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:
>
> >http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/
>
> > --
> > --
> > "Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:

http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
Barbara's Cat
2010-10-02 04:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Goober Dance said:

> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > Goober Dance said:
> >
> > > Goober Dockery said:
> > >
> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > writingHaiku
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
> > >
> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
> >
> >
> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
>
> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
>
> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible
> > > new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing about
> > > it as well.
> >
> >
> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > interesting.
>
>
> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
> my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> fight.


You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

--
Cm~

"Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
which, when a man hath forced up
a hill, will return upon him with
a greater violence, and break those
bones whose sinews gave it motion."
- Albert Schweitzer
Will Dockery
2010-10-02 08:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Barbara's Cat said:
>George Dance wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > On the subject of Haiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > > writing Haiku
>
> > > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible
> > > > new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing about
> > > > it as well.
>
> > > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > > interesting.
>
> > I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
> > my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> > between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> > It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> > claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> > period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> > ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> > (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> > fight.
>
> pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

You sound paranoid, Barbie.

> "Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
>  which, when a man hath forced up
>  a hill, will return upon him with
>  a greater violence, and break those
>  bones whose sinews gave it motion."
>                  - Albert Schweitzer

Nice quote... and you seem even more paranoid after posting that,
Barbie.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Meat Plow
2010-10-02 10:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:

> Goober Dance said:
>
>> Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > Goober Dance said:
>> >
>> > > Goober Dockery said:
>> > >
>> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
>> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
>> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
>> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>> > > >
>> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
>> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
>> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
>> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>> > >
>> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
>> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>> >
>> >
>> > I wonder what was up with that?
>>
>>
>> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
>> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>>
>>
>> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
>> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
>> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>> >
>> >
>> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
>> > interesting.
>>
>>
>> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
>> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
>> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
>> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
>> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
>> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
>> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
>> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
>> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
>
> You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel

author unknown to me.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Will Dockery
2010-10-02 11:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 2, 6:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful'

Since you never seem to manage to do anything "useful" yourself, MP,
that doesn't seem so likely, y'know?

> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>     Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>     As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.

Bob Dylan, actually:

http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re throwing knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man’s bones
Got their noses to the grindstones

Living in the Land of Nod
Trustin’ their fate to the Hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re going to the country, they’re gonna retire
They’re taking a street car named Desire
Looking in the window at the pecan pie
Lot of things they’d like they would never buy

Neither one gonna turn and run
They’re making a voyage to the sun
“His Master’s voice is calling me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Tweedle-dee Dee and Tweedle-dee Dum
All that and more and then some
They walk among the stately trees
They know the secrets of the breeze

Tweedle-dee Dum said to Tweedle-dee Dee
“Your presence is obnoxious to me”
They’re like babies sittin’ on a woman’s knee
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, the rain beating down on my window pane
I got love for you and it’s all in vain
Brains in the pot, they’re beginning to boil
They’re dripping with garlic and olive oil

Tweedle-dee Dee—he’s on his hands and his knees
Saying, “Throw me somethin’, Mister, please”
“What’s good for you is good for me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re living in a happy harmony
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re one day older and a dollar short
They’ve got a parade permit and a police escort

They’re lying low and they’re makin’ hay
They seem determined to go all the way
They run a brick-and-tile company
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well a childish dream is a deathless need
And a noble truth is a sacred dream
My pretty baby, she’s lookin’ around
She’s wearin’ a multi-thousand dollar gown

Tweedle-dee Dee is a lowdown, sorry old man
Tweedle-dee Dum, he’ll stab you where you stand
“I’ve had too much of your company,”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

-Bob Dylan

Copyright © 2001 by Special Rider Music

> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music):
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017
Barbara's Cat
2010-10-03 02:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Meat Plow said:

> Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> > Goober Dance said:
> >
> >> Goober Dockery said:
> >>
> >> > Goober Dance said:
> >> >
> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
> >> > >
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
> >> > >
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
> >>
> >>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
> >>
> >>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
> >>
> >>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
> >
> >
> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.


My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
Next, "Get a life."


> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
> They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.


Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.

--
Cm~

"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
- Mark Twain
mat1t3
2010-10-03 03:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
> Meat Plow said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> > > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> > >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> > >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> > >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> > >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> > >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> > >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > >> > interesting.
>
> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> Next, "Get a life."
>
> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > author unknown to me.
>
> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> --
> Cm~
>
> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
>                                                        - Mark Twain

look at this:

the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.

aapc is in full swing again!

: )
George Dance
2010-10-03 04:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > Meat Plow pissed:
>
> > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
> > > > Dance said:
>
> > > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> > Next, "Get a life."
>
> > > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> > >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> > >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> > >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> > >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > > author unknown to me.
>
> > Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> > I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> look at this:

Shit & piss!

> the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.

as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .


>
> aapc is in full swing again!
>

I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
my search results. '

----- <forward> ----------------------------
From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla wrote:
[snip]
> Nice list, Karla...

Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
she
posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
truthful in posting it as if it were one.

For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."

For another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
following statement of mine posted to AAPC --

"While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
a-
half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
recycled from her 20th century ouevre."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...

-- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
three poems that were never posted here at all.
Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
"Reposts", as follows:

New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:

03/02/09 (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
06/13/09 On Mariana in the Glass
10/03/09 In the Clouds
11/23/09 Sonnet
01/09/10 Grail
01/30/10 Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
01/31/10 Haiku (ping--)
01/31/10 Raisin Ether
02/15/10 Blue Quintet
02/26/10 Obpoem (Moon Moan)
03/14/10 Haiku (winter sun)

Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:

02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC

As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
interests of
"accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
stated earlier).

</fwd>

> :  )
Will Dockery
2010-10-03 15:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
> readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
> here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
> my search results. '
>
> ----- <forward> ----------------------------
> From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
> Message-ID:
> <27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
>
> On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Karla wrote:
> [snip]
> > Nice list, Karla...
>
> Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
> she
> posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
> should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
> truthful in posting it as if it were one.
>
> For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
> reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."
>
> For  another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
> following statement of mine posted to AAPC --
>
> "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> a-
> half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> three poems that were never posted here at all.
> Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> "Reposts", as follows:
>
> New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> 11/23/09        Sonnet
> 01/09/10        Grail
> 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> interests of
> "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> stated earlier).
>
> </fwd>> :

Interesting.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2010-10-03 18:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 3, 11:56 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
> > readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
> > here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
> > my search results. '
>
> > ----- <forward> ----------------------------
> > From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
> > Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
> > Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > Message-ID:
> > <27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
>
> > On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Karla wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > Nice list, Karla...
>
> > Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
> > she
> > posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
> > should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
> > truthful in posting it as if it were one.
>
> > For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
> > reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."
>
> > For  another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
> > following statement of mine posted to AAPC --
>
> > "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> > a-
> > half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> > recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> > -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> > three poems that were never posted here at all.
> > Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> > "Reposts", as follows:
>
> > New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> > 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> > 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> > 11/23/09        Sonnet
> > 01/09/10        Grail
> > 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> > 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> > 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> > 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> > 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> > 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> > Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> > 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> > 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> > 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> > 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> > 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> > 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> > 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> > 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> > 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> > 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> > 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> > 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> > 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> > As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> > revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> > interests of
> > "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> > stated earlier).
>
> > </fwd>> :
>
> Interesting.
>


I thought so, and it looked like a lot of people wouldn't get to even
see it; almost as soon as it was posted into this thread, the nonsense
being posted down in this part of it began, burying the facts about
Karla's allegation under a heap of trash posts.

But I intend to keep reminding the thread's readers of them, and (with
help from readers like you), a few will actually get to learn about
them.








> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2010-10-03 21:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 3, 2:40 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 11:56 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:

<snip for focus>

> > > "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> > > a-
> > > half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> > > recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> > > -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> > > three poems that were never posted here at all.
> > > Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> > > "Reposts", as follows:
>
> > > New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > > 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> > > 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> > > 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> > > 11/23/09        Sonnet
> > > 01/09/10        Grail
> > > 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> > > 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> > > 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> > > 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> > > 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> > > 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> > > Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > > 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> > > 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> > > 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> > > 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> > > 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> > > 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> > > 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> > > 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> > > 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> > > 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> > > 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> > > 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> > > 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> > > 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> > > As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> > > revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> > > interests of
> > > "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> > > stated earlier).
>
> > > </fwd>> :
>
> > Interesting.
>
> I thought so, and it looked like a lot of people wouldn't get to even
> see it; almost as soon as it was posted into this thread, the nonsense
> being posted down in this part of it began, burying the facts about
> Karla's allegation under a heap of trash posts.
>
> But I intend to keep reminding the thread's readers of them, and (with
> help from readers like you), a few will actually get to learn about
> them.

Links & commments (new & old), this could be interesting & educational
for fans & new readers of the poetry of Karla Rogers, as well as for
Karla herself, since one of the main reasons for writing poetry is to
find & entertain an audience.

While I have a bit of time, I'll see if I can begin expanding one of
the poems listed... "Trick Of Light" is one that I (& others) went
into great detail exploring, so that's probably a good place to
start...

--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music).
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017

> --
> > Music & poetry of Will Dockery:

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
mat1t3
2010-10-03 18:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 2, 9:43 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > > Meat Plow pissed:
>
> > > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
> > > > > Dance said:
>
> > > > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > > > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > > > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > > > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > > > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > > > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > > > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > > > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > > > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > > > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > > > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > > My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> > > Next, "Get a life."
>
> > > > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> > > >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > > > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> > > >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > > > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> > > >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > > > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> > > >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > > > author unknown to me.
>
> > > Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> > > I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> > look at this:
>
> Shit & piss!

my goodness, george! you seem as though you're
upset about something. i was trying to compliment
you on your dancing skills. is it really so hard to
accept a compliment? i know you get beat up
around here a lot. and, i know that must hurt.
but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
exceptional, don't you? and, when you're partnered
up with the duck man, things really swing around here.

by all means: keep swingin'

: )
>
> > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .

mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!

please continue, gentlemen.

>
>
>
> > aapc is in full swing again!
>
> I notice this <snip mindless drivel>
George Dance
2010-10-03 18:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 3, 2:35 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 9:43 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> pissed:
> > > > Meat Plow pissed:
> > > > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
>
> > > look at this:
>
> > Shit & piss!
>
> my goodness, george!  you seem as though you're
> upset about something.  i was trying to compliment
> you on your dancing skills.  is it really so hard to
> accept a compliment?  i know you get beat up
> around here a lot.  and, i know that must hurt.
> but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
> exceptional, don't you?  and, when you're partnered
> up with the duck man, things really swing around here.
>
> by all means:  keep swingin'
>
> :  )

Speaking of misunderstanding what someone else has posted (and we
were, last week); in this case I was only rhyming your lines, to bring
out verse implicit in your writing.

Here, I thought of another line in the interim, which should make it
clearer as it finishes the first stanza. (But I'll write that in at
the end of the post, where it'll be more effective.)

>
> > > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> > as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .
>
> mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!
>
> please continue, gentlemen.
>

AAPC

Look at this:
Shit and piss!
For some it is eternal bliss;
The meat cat prance
And the duck dunce dance
As told by Mr. Squittypants.

- Matt E. and George Dance


>
> > > aapc is in full swing again!
>
Meat Plow
2010-10-03 12:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:30:17 -0700, mat1t3 wrote:

> On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>> Meat Plow said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
>>
>> > > Goober Dance said:
>>
>> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>>
>> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this
>> > >> > > > year, I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty
>> > >> > > > hard to locate) & was reminded that they were from a time
>> > >> > > > pretty much everyone here were writingHaiku
>>
>> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>>
>> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've
>> > >> > > found all three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on
>> > >> > > Karla's list was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one
>> > >> > > of those that I particularly enjoyed reading (but on a
>> > >> > > separate thread).
>>
>> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems
>> > >> > > that Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>>
>> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>>
>> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I
>> > >> think it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>>
>> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems
>> > >> > > (and 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of
>> > >> > > those, I'll appreciate hearing about it as well.
>>
>> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here,
>> > >> > that's interesting.
>>
>> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think
>> > >> under the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to
>> > >> work on my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation
>> > >> -- a tie between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome
>> > >> for anyone. It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less
>> > >> than her earlier claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems
>> > >> as old in that time period"); and while I was quite willing to
>> > >> settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to extent of apologizing to her
>> > >> for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving hers a pass), she wanted
>> > >> to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>>
>> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed
>> > > pathetic.
>>
>> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and
>> > Tweedle Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>>
>> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help." Next,
>> "Get a life."
>>
>> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>> >     Agreed to have a battle;
>> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
>> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
>> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
>> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>>
>> > author unknown to me.
>>
>> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the
>> ages. I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob
>> Dylan wrote it.
>>
>> --
>> Cm~
>>
>> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
>>                                                        -
>>                                                        Mark
>>                                                        Twain
>
> look at this:
>
> the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> aapc is in full swing again!
>
> : )

Did you miss us :) I really got tired of those two lower life forms and
their banal banter hence the ebbing of my aap, aapc contributions. I
would likely find intellectual 'sparring' with a chimpanzee who could
sign language exponentially more rewarding than the narrow, thoughtless
responses from Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle Dumb.




--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Meat Plow
2010-10-03 12:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 22:25:05 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:

> Meat Plow said:
>
>> Barbara's Cat wrote:
>>
>> > Goober Dance said:
>> >
>> >> Goober Dockery said:
>> >>
>> >> > Goober Dance said:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this
>> >> > > > year, I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty
>> >> > > > hard to locate) & was reminded that they were from a time
>> >> > > > pretty much everyone here were writingHaiku
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found
>> >> > > all three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's
>> >> > > list was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those
>> >> > > that I particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems
>> >> > > that Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I
>> >> think it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems
>> >> > > (and 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of
>> >> > > those, I'll appreciate hearing about it as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here,
>> >> > that's interesting.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think
>> >> under the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to
>> >> work on my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation --
>> >> a tie between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for
>> >> anyone. It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her
>> >> earlier claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in
>> >> that time period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a
>> >> tie 10 days ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my
>> >> "inaccurate" claim (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight
>> >> instead -- so we'll fight.
>> >
>> >
>> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>>
>>
>> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and
>> Tweedle Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
>
> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help." Next,
> "Get a life."

Unfortunately those suggestions have a long history of falling upon deaf
ears :(

>
>> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>> Agreed to have a battle;
>> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
>> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>> As black as a tar-barrel;
>> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>> They quite forgot their quarrel
>>
>> author unknown to me.
>
>
> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the
> ages. I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan
> wrote it.

Really? Surely you jest :) Trying not to read 99.9% of his dreck I missed
that one.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Leisha
2010-10-12 15:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 2, 3:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>     Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>     As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.
>
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

You must be joking; you know it's Lewis Carroll, of course:
http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap04.htm

This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."
http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm

Leisha
George Dance
2010-10-12 16:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 12, 11:39 am, Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 3:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> > >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> > >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> > >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> > >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> > >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> > >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > >> > interesting.
>
> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > author unknown to me.
>
> > --
> > Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
>
> You must be joking; you know it's Lewis Carroll, of course:http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap04.htm


It doesn't sound as if Carroll wrote it -- I think it's a nursery
rhyme that he's just using. Notice how Alice refers to it: "... the
words of the old song kept ringing through her head like the ticking
of a clock, and she could hardly help saying them out loud:"

>
> This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."

http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm

I've always liked that one. I liked it even more when I discovered the
Southey poem that Carroll was parodying:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_can_you_tell_me_about_the_poem_'You_Are_Old_Father_William'_by_Lewis_Carroll



>
> Leisha

I dunno; I liked Carroll when I was a boy, but
Will Dockery
2010-09-24 14:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sep 24, 8:50 am, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS.  A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!

We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2010-09-29 12:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:478106aa-3ec0-48bf-92b8-***@a30g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 24, 8:50 am, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!

We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.

Sorry, I wasn't screaming. I just got excited there fer a minute.
Will Dockery
2010-10-03 06:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> I stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.

No, stupid, Dylan did write the verses I quoted:

http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re throwing knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man’s bones
Got their noses to the grindstones

Living in the Land of Nod
Trustin’ their fate to the Hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re going to the country, they’re gonna retire
They’re taking a street car named Desire
Looking in the window at the pecan pie
Lot of things they’d like they would never buy

Neither one gonna turn and run
They’re making a voyage to the sun
“His Master’s voice is calling me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Tweedle-dee Dee and Tweedle-dee Dum
All that and more and then some
They walk among the stately trees
They know the secrets of the breeze

Tweedle-dee Dum said to Tweedle-dee Dee
“Your presence is obnoxious to me”
They’re like babies sittin’ on a woman’s knee
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, the rain beating down on my window pane
I got love for you and it’s all in vain
Brains in the pot, they’re beginning to boil
They’re dripping with garlic and olive oil

Tweedle-dee Dee—he’s on his hands and his knees
Saying, “Throw me somethin’, Mister, please”
“What’s good for you is good for me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re living in a happy harmony
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re one day older and a dollar short
They’ve got a parade permit and a police escort

They’re lying low and they’re makin’ hay
They seem determined to go all the way
They run a brick-and-tile company
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well a childish dream is a deathless need
And a noble truth is a sacred dream
My pretty baby, she’s lookin’ around
She’s wearin’ a multi-thousand dollar gown

Tweedle-dee Dee is a lowdown, sorry old man
Tweedle-dee Dum, he’ll stab you where you stand
“I’ve had too much of your company,”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

-Bob Dylan

Copyright © 2001 by Special Rider Music

> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
> - Mark Twain

True that & what he said.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2010-09-29 21:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
More haiku, found on the internet:

Shoreline... by Lakeya Slap Gardner
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2347471856#!/note.php?note_id=447984343336

Two Haiku by BeaN
http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/another-haiku

and

http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/columbus-haiku

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

--
alt.arts.poetry.comments Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=105463832836304&ref=ts
Will Dockery
2010-10-03 15:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Really? Surely you jest :) Trying not to read 99.9% of his

<slap>

Ah... really? You seem to hang on (& sniff behind) to every word,
actually, M.P.

Come back and respond... you know you read this... heh.

> >> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> >Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> >as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> >America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> >"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> >to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> >image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> >portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> >spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> >in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> >The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> >yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> >prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> >believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> >lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> >graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> >of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> >recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> >which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> >of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> >I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> >to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html
Will Dockery
2010-10-04 19:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Karla said:

<snip for focus>

> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.

Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?

If so, most of us know that's not ture:

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2010-10-04 19:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Karla said:

<snip for focus>

> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.

Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?

If so, most of us know that's not true:

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2010-10-04 23:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Oct 4, 3:01 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
> > You consider haiku
> > poetry when it's your haiku.
>
> Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?
>

I'm pretty sure Karla knows it hasn't. She's just misrepresenting
another comment of mine, in order to pretend something that's not
true.

> If so, most of us know that's not true:
>

It's also not true, of course, that I 'disqualified' her "haiku." I
explained why I didn't count them originally; but when Karla insisted
they were poems because she was "pleased with the results" (presumably
including any typos), I din't challenge any of them. Of course I don't
insist that anyone simply take my word for that: Here's proof, the
lists I posted Oct. 2:

<quote>
New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
03/02/09 (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
06/13/09 On Mariana in the Glass
10/03/09 In the Clouds
11/23/09 Sonnet
01/09/10 Grail
01/30/10 Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
01/31/10 Haiku (ping--)
01/31/10 Raisin Ether
02/15/10 Blue Quintet
02/26/10 Obpoem (Moon Moan)
03/14/10 Haiku (winter sun)

Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC

>
> > Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> > as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> > America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> > "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> > to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> > image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> > portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> > spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> > in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> > The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> > yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> > prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> > believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> > lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> > graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> > of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> > recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> > which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> > of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
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